SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Finish your vacation, keep the peace, get back home, start making arrangements to leave, then leave. You don't need to telegraph or warn him. You've already done that countless times and he flat out told you "I'm not reading that." How many times are you going to write letters he either won't read, or maybe reads then ignores it and refuses to address?

He's not going to change, and you can't change him. Things will only change if you change what you can, and that's yourself. I don't think he's ever going to acknowledge your pain and struggles. Right now it's your choice to remain in this loop.

I don't know you, but just from reading a few of your posts you seem to be very smart, articulate, caring, and conscientious. I think anyone would be lucky to find someone like you, and I think there's someone out there who will appreciate what you bring to the table. You're selling yourself short by settling for the treatment you're getting right now.

[This message edited by Pogre at 4:05 PM, Wednesday, April 1st]

People communicate in different ways.
Have you tried asking him directly if he read the letter and what his response might be?

I am so sorry to hear this. You so desperately want connection. You are a person who lives secure connection. He is blatantly an "avoidant". Now I will say avoidants can change, but it will take work. He first needs to be introduced to the topic and understand that he is a avoidant. And you can help him through this of you really love him. But...and this is a big BUT....you MUST learn to set up proper boundaries to protect yourself.

Example, here is a potential way to handle your current situation.

"Jake, I wanted to mention that I have noticed you did not respond to me about my letter to you. I poured out my heart to you and have heard nothing from you in return. A relationship needs two people to take part in the relationship, not one. I am extremely hurt by the lack of response. Recently I have learned that you have what is called an "Avoidant" attachment style. I really cannot continue our relationship like this. I know of some resources to help you understand that avoidant characteristic and they can help you learn how to engage within a relationship to make it healthy. If you are interested in that, let me know. Until then, I really cannot continue a one sided relationship. As much as I want to be with you, I am going to need to take time for myself to heal our lack of connection. Please get in touch with me if you decide you want work on these issues in a tangible way."

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 5:08 PM, Wednesday, April 1st]

Hi Ghost! I am so sorry to see you here. It was really hard for me to read your account because I identify with your pain. I'm going through something similar.

Or I should say I've been going through what you are for 36 years. I recognize the cruelty, the lack of empathy, the latent (maybe not so latent) hostility.

So it was wonderful in the beginning and you're maybe a little in shock and confused when it seemed to change and you're waiting for him to be that guy he was in the beginning?

Is that it?

Run girl. You in danger girl.

Ghost, I understand well the desire to not rock the boat when things are going well, to repress your negative emotions and just enjoy the moment, don't make a scene, don't push him, etc.. I often tried to be compassionate, patient, and understanding in my marriage. I would raise issues when it was the "right time," when there was privacy and space to discuss things openly.

Unfortunately all of this comes at a personal cost. By repressing these negative thoughts for 3 weeks, you are now in a state of high internal anxiety about his lack of response to the letter. You need to flat out ask him if read it. If he says yes, ask him why he hasn't replied. If he says no, ask him why he isn't prioritizing it. Depending on his answers, you need to take appropriate actions in response.

Remember that boundaries are for our protection, not for inflicting punishment or consequences on the other person. It took me a while to really understand this and put it into practice. It's not easy to harden our hearts and do things to protect ourselves when we know it will hurt the other person. For some of us, it's easier to absorb the damage to ourselves, but that's not a healthy way to live.

I tend to be a conflict avoidant person, but I've learned to stand my ground. It takes courage. Don't be afraid to "spoil" the trip for him. You have some time off - perhaps this is the perfect time to hash out the reality of your future.

Do I say something and probably start a fight.

This is why you write letters. You can't count on a reasonable conversation about your relationship, and that's a problem. You shouldn't have to live avoiding relationship conversations that need to be had. He's perfectly fine living like that, and you are not. Adults should be able to communicate about their relationship without expecting it's going to start a fight. That said, maybe it's not fair to spring these talks on each other unexpectedly but reasonable to say I've been wanting to have a discussion about that letter I wrote to you, and I was wondering when you'd be ready to do so, and set a time that is mutually agreeable. If that's not possible from his end or he kicks up, you've got your answer yet again.

Wheew! Thank you again for all of your responses — I’m really taking the time to read and reflect on everything you’re saying.

I hear the recurring message very clearly: he has shown me who he is, and nothing has changed. I do see that. I’m not ignoring it, even if it may look that way from the outside. It's just so damn hard to give up on what I thought we have!

To the question "what is your next step?" That’s exactly where I am right now. Struggling with a decision. Though I already know what I need to do.

Some of you suggested I should just leave without saying anything further. Others suggested I should ask him directly about the letter. The truth is: I already know that his silence is an answer. I don’t need him to confirm it for me. At the same time, not addressing it at all while we are here together, acting like everything is fine, feels very uncomfortable and almost dishonest to myself.

That’s where I feel stuck. And I am just so freaking unhappy I can barely breathe.

I also want to clarify — I am already in therapy and have been for over a year, both in a trauma group and in individual therapy. This is something I am actively working on, including understanding why I stayed as long as I did. And my therapist actually doesn't want me to make any huge decisions while I am still working on myself.

Some of you mentioned fear of being alone or unhealthy attachment. I’ve thought about that a lot. The emotional bond has been very strong, and that is what has kept me here. It's not fear of being on my own. I am actually in a position where I could leave and be okay. But a huge part of me still wants to be with Jake.

I also hear the advice to not "protect the peace" at my own expense. That resonates. At the same time, I don’t want to fall back into pushing, explaining, or trying to force a conversation that he clearly avoids.

So I am trying to find the balance between speaking up for myself and not re-entering the same pattern. That’s where I am right now I guess.

Thank you also for the kind words!!
Ghost

I don't mean to disrupt any course of treatment you may be in, but I find the idea confounding of working to figure out why you stayed so long while you're still stayed. That doesn't make sense to me because it feels circular: the very same factors that people experience while exposed to toxicity, control, and abuse confound this very understanding. I've never seen someone reflect well on when they put getting out of abuse after achieving this feeling they understand it or otherwise reach some mythical settled state about it. All that does is leave them seeing that this just enabled further exposure, ie staying- see how that's circular? The key is ending the exposure.

I don’t understand your therapist’s advice either. But I’m not a professionally trained therapist so I not going to debate it.

That being said, the comment "what I thought I had" stuck with me. I think we as betrayed spouses or partners look back with a betrayed lens and see things very differently. You do things to keep the peace like writing letters to avoid difficult situations or conversations. It then becomes normalized and you stop seeing anything odd or wrong with it.

You deserve better than to be in a relationship where you are unhappy or unfulfilled or unable to talk to your partner.

I think all of your energy needs to be spent on YOU. Not him or the relationship or how go talk to him. YOU need to focus on you.

I don't mean to disrupt any course of treatment you may be in, but I find the idea confounding of working to figure out why you stayed so long while you're still stayed.

I think the same thing. I personally feel that separation often provides the clarity you need to make sound decisions. That time alone to work on yourself and not tiptoe around someone else and their issues, you know?

I feel like I’m going crazy!!!

Today we were cleaning up a bit in our home. My brother is getting new dining room furniture and I wanted the old set. So today we cleared things out here. Everything was calm and easygoing.

In the evening, Jake wanted to go out for a bit and we took a walk through our little town, even though I was already completely exhausted. On the way back he suggested we go eat at one of the restaurants here. Everything was still friendly and nice.

After dinner I asked: "Jake, did you read my letter?"

He said: "Yes, why?"

I said: "You haven’t said a single word about it. I was hoping for some kind of response."

He said: "What am I even supposed to say?"

I said: "Anything! I poured my heart out to you and I feel like you just ignore me."

He said: "I don’t want to talk about this here and now. It will just escalate again. You can’t talk normally."

I said: "Jake, this is very, very important to me. This should be your top priority."

He said: "What? What do you mean? I don’t understand."

I said: "I’m serious. We need to talk about this. I’m not going to just watch you sit it out anymore. Not this time. Didn’t you read that? I don’t want this anymore like this, I am thinking about leaving."

He said: "That’s all very one-sided anyway. Just your perspective. I can’t talk to you about all my issues with you either. Haven’t been able to for years. You start arguing right away and run away."

And then it just went in circles...

Now we’re sitting here in silence in front of the TV 😢

Ghost, good for you in bringing it up! He read it but didn't say anything? That's ridiculous. And then he DARVOed you big time. This is a pretty standard tactic and not promising.

So now you have your answer - he doesn't want to do counseling, he doesn't want to communicate further, and he doesn't want to change. What is your next move?

Hello friendly folks - yes, I know, it is absolutely ridiculous! I wrote him a very clear and honest letter, gave him a few weeks, and then - finally - asked him about it directly. He told me he had read it, but he showed no initiative to talk about it, shut the conversation down, shifted the responsibility onto me, and minimized and twisted the issue. The exact same pattern he has been showing me!

This shows me once again, that it’s not that he can’t deal with it, but that he doesn’t want to. Whenever things get serious, he withdraws and turns it back on me. It follows a very clear and repeating pattern: things are good between us, I bring up something important, he blocks or avoids it, turns it against me, I try to get clarity, and we end up going in circles.

I have done my part. I have spoken up, explained, reflected, given him space, and worked on myself. I came to understand: His behavior is the answer, not his words. He read the letter, said nothing, avoided the conversation, and stayed in the same pattern. I don’t need more information to understand where I stand.

What makes this so painful is that he can also be kind, attentive, and loving, which creates hope — and then it breaks again in exactly the same way. The reality is that I am not getting what I need from him, not consistently and not on the level that matters to me.

At this point, the question is whether I want to stay in something that I now clearly see for what it is. I am very emotional, but I am also clear and prepared. I am at a point where I need to make a real decision.

What happened this morning makes it even clearer…….

I asked Jake if he might want to keep his old furniture after all, because I don’t want him to end up sitting here with furniture he doesn’t like — or even without furniture — if I take my things with me when I leave. That’s when the conversation shifted immediately. He asked what had suddenly happened to me since yesterday after dinner and why I was "like this."

I told him that I’m not "like this" just since yesterday — I’ve been feeling this way for a long time — and that I’m only more distant and cold now because I finally have a clear answer for myself. He responded with "Oh really? Where?" So I said that the way he was acting again was exactly the pattern I’ve been describing to him for years: avoiding, deflecting, and turning things around. I told him that I now have my answer because I know he read my letter and still chose not to respond to it.

At that point, it escalated. He started interrupting me, accusing me of lying, saying I was aggressive and that you can’t talk to me. He raised his voice, stood up and physically positioned himself over me, and kept cutting me off. He kept repeating the same sentence over and over: "What did I say? What pattern?" — while at the same time demonstrating exactly that behavior in that very moment.

I then said, that this is exactly the pattern that has also caused his other relationships to fail, and that he could ask his ex-wife, his children, or even his sister, because they would know exactly what I’m talking about. He continued to argue, insult me, and not let me finish speaking.

At that point, I turned away and said I would cancel with the people who were supposed to pick up the furniture today.

——

I want to add: I am okay. It really hurt me and felt very insulting, but after a few minutes on my own — and a cool shower — I calmed down. I am okay now.

THANK YOU ALL!
Ghost

P.S. This is what my therapist said about my situation and about not making big changes during therapy…

„The reason I generally advise against making major life changes during therapy is that this process can intensify your emotions. You may feel a strong sense of clarity, but that clarity is sometimes driven more by emotional activation than by steady, grounded reflection. I want to make sure that any decision you make comes from a place that is stable and sustainable for you.

Therapy also brings long-standing patterns into awareness. While you’re beginning to recognize them, it takes time to respond to them differently. Acting too quickly can sometimes mean reacting from those same patterns, just in a new form.

Another important point is that therapy works best when there is a certain level of external stability. Major changes like a separation or a move can create additional stress and shift our focus into crisis management, rather than allowing us to work more deeply on the underlying issues. This is especially important in your case, given your health condition.

It’s also not my role to tell you what decision to make. My responsibility is to support you in understanding yourself, your needs, and your situation clearly—so that whatever choice you make is truly your own and well-considered. At the same time, I want to be clear: this is not a rigid rule. If someone is in real danger—physically or psychologically—then change can be necessary and protective.

In your case, both you and I have the sense that you are not in immediate or acute danger in your relationship. That gives us the space to slow things down, look closely, and make sure that any decision you make is grounded, thoughtful, and aligned with what you truly need in the long term."

I’m glad you talked to him about it.
Since he doesn’t want to talk, and since it seems you two fall into a he-says/she-says pattern… Would you both be willing to go to MC where your letter would be the focus? Where you both agree to let the other talk with no intervention? Maybe (and I say this in the kindest of ways…) both work on discussing rather than debating – as in listening to the complaint and not trying to win an argument.

Not being snidey with that comment. It’s so common that we fall into the trap of wanting to win arguments rather than resolve issues. I think it’s especially common with long-term married couples.

does your therapist know about everything that's going on, all the things that happened from your letter (and I'm sure there's more)? I mean there were so many psychological attacks, severe ones, and physical abuse described as well. Once physical abuse has occurred, the data shows it really only continues and worsens without large scale intervention, and this is a person who barely acknowledges their behavior, let alone take accountability for it.

From what you shared here it feels like we're in the crisis.

I'm having difficulty with the idea that getting out of the place where all that happened would be the crisis.

I know it's problematic to debate a therapist's hands-on instruction but it's not comporting with the letter in the OP for me.

Standing over you and shoving your words back down your throat is very close to 'immediate danger', IMO.

Also, I garee with Bigger. You're not communicating. A good MC may be able to help. Your H's behavior could be attacking because he's scared. A good MC might be able to get him past his fear or, I guess, whatever feelings are keeping him unable to deal with issues.